There are some amazing third party sites that help you get more out of your Strava data. And then there’s digital epo…
I became aware of the site a few months ago but deliberately didn’t blog about it because I didn’t want to promote it. Just recently there have been articles popping up on most of the popular bike sites, and twitter and the various bike forums are all talking about it, so the cat’s out of the bag, I guess.
The site is set up partly as a spoof of Strava, but more perniciously, it offers a tool to modify gpx/tcx files in order to make the rider appear faster than they really were.
Want to impress your friends with faster Strava times ? Then you need Digital EPO ! Are you just cheating yourself ?http://t.co/RiBWvHU31H
— Ultra168 (@Ultra168) June 11, 2013
Wow. How to cheat without the benefit of actually getting faster. Sigh. *slow clap* via @Ultra168 http://t.co/2WXQrsXlCL
— Sam Robson (@stupid_runner) June 11, 2013
Yes – blatant, shameless cheating.
I had to wonder what the author’s motives were in creating it. Obviously it requires a specific set of skills to craft a website with this kind of functionality, but why not do something constructive, like the incredible Veloviewer
Just seen http://t.co/ICOOSMzipu – are people really that sad to cheat at Strava?! Beggars belief!
— Alastair Canaway (@captain_canaway) June 11, 2013
There’s a strong impression that the authors of digital epo are deliberately trying to damage Strava. The site makes reference to Strava “suing the family of a member who died while using their product”, referring to the Flint case, which was dismissed. I’ve no idea if there’s any connection here, but it would appear that the site is motivated by something deeper than a coder showing off their talents to get attention and kudos.
There is always someone who has to ruin everything http://t.co/o6ymgQN5Hd — Laura Weislo (@Laura_Weislo) June 6, 2013
Either way, Digital Epo is a cleverly engineered virus in the Strava community. It’s effect, at best, is to irritate and annoy ordinary Strava users. Most people will just raise an eyebrow at the site and question the intelligence of anybody who would seek to use it to gain an advantage on a Strava leaderboard. At its worst however, it could seriously undermine the credibility of segment leaderboards, which are the backbone of Strava’s success.
Just a joke?
It’s a big world, with lots of people and we’re not all the same. There will be some, too immature to know any better, who will use the site to create artificially inflated performance times. Others will say that Strava can’t be taken seriously anyway, and the only way to really prove anything is to pin a number on your back and race for real.
Un****ing believable http://t.co/GWj2ZvIK9O who would actually use this site? — Stephen Cowe (@stephencowe) June 8, 2013
The fact remains that tens of thousands of cyclists worldwide have an affinity with Strava that’s due to the motivation that it helps provide to keep training, to get fitter and faster. Part of that motivation comes from measuring improvements in your own performance, and equally, or possibly more so for some people, comes from the competitive aspect of being at the top of the segment leaderboards. Whilst digital epo cannot affect the former aspect, it can seriously ruin the latter.
First the nasty selfish people will do it, then the people who don’t care and then finally those who were originally against it. #digitalEPO
— David Mclean (@DavidMcleanCycl) June 9, 2013
Time to give up on strava i think. Within a year every fucker will be using this to cheat: http://t.co/rwGSFiaigU – http://t.co/NVLi9jB0nN
— Steve Dodds (@SDDG7TFL) June 10, 2013
#digitalepo totally fucking pointless your only cheating yourself at the end of the day please @Strava sort it out
— kelmack72 (@adriankelmackie) June 10, 2013
What’s your view?
UPDATE: Thanks to Darren W for pointing out that there is a way to tell if files were juiced with digital epo. Read How to tell if someone used Digital Epo to cheat on Strava.
For the most complete list of Strava sites, be sure to check out the Ultimate List, hosted right here on ScarletFire.
I’ve been looking into this to see if there are any tell tale signs in the performance graphs to give DEPO away. And there is. It seems it cannot produce a smooth speed profile. When you think about it this makes sense, Strava must work on the standard speed, time and distance calculations which come from GPS. That’s obvious to us all. So, DEPO cannot change the distance or the time so it’s got to up the speed. It seems though that it cannot produce a smooth speed, it produces very obvious spikes. You can see this when you look at the performance graphs, there are spikes every 10 seconds or so. When you look at the speed and elevation it stands out a mile. Have a play – see if you have the same results. Keep your rides private though and delete them afterwards save messing up leader boards and people getting look out emails. I’ve spotted a DEPO segment today, I went for the KOM and got it by one second, not bad in a head wind. Someone else got it today too. It’s clear as day that the file has been manipulated. Perhaps we can get rid of this DEPO crap. Why anybody would cheat themselves is beyond me. Have a play and see what you find.
Very interesting, thanks Darren! I may have to create a post about that, with screenshots and stuff. How to spot a juiced ride: the telltale signs.
I’ve seen another website, functionally identical, which justifies itself on the basis that Strava encourages riders to act irresponsibly and is therefore putting trail access in jeopardy and causing ill-will amongst motorists. Potentially valid arguments, though I doubt they’ll achieve much with their current tactics.
I think it’s great. I use Strava daily for my own record keeping as well as to see what friends are up to, but the K/QOM feature as well as leader boards are ridiculous and irresponsible. For one, it encourages irresponsible behavior on public streets, period. That may not be what you are using it for, but it’s unarguable that people do it all the time. Iv’e even seen it spray painted in the street that a Strava segment is starting, with the end point coming AFTER a stop sign. Get real, Alan.
Aside from that, KOMs are bogus because they don’t take the wind into account. I have a KOM that is 7 mph faster up a hill than another rider who I know would drop me immediately if the conditions were equal. It so happened that that day there was an enormous tail wind and getting the KOM was a piece of cake. How about when you are on a long ride working hard the entire time, get a best time,and someone comes out KOM hunting with fresh legs and destroys your time? See how they are totally unreliable?
If you guys want to race, put your big boy undies on and sign up for a race. Pay your $15, pin your number on and see what you can do…honestly and comparably. Don’t be that guy out there looking for segments to sand bag when the wind is just right. Strava chasers are at best the biggest d-bags in cycling, and at worst dangerous idiots putting my and my kids safety in question.
Not everybody uses Strava as you depict. Not everybody is irresponsible as you describe. Unfortunately there are fools in all walks of life. I use Strava quite effectively to improve my fitness and race pace. I’m really not bothered about the wind, most leader-boards are headed up by rides on windy days – so what – we all know that, that’s the weather for you. I’ve raced in awful conditions – sideways rain. My times were poor and I didn’t win. So what. If I came across a segment that I rode and I considered unsafe, I would flag it. Certainly one that goes passed a stop sign. That’s just plain daft. We have a very responsible cycling community here; we are not blessed with dangerous idiots, quite the opposite. We have a good race calendar, time trials and local club events every week. Strava is a great personal motivation tool and I consider it a training aid. If a KOM on a good long hard sprint or a climb is taken from me (‘m not the world’s best climber mind) I will look at the ride, compare it to mine and see if I can improve. Next time I am headed that way I may have a go at the segment. The good thing about Strava, rather than racing or indeed TTs on open roads is that if conditions are not right – i.e. the roads are busy or there are pedestrians about, you can leave it for another time. No drama. So in essence I completely disagree with your prejudice – there are some very competent and safe Strava communities out there. :)
Strava is very inaccurate on loops, steep and fast mountain bike descents, short segments, which are proliferating daily (many are now segments within segments), smartdata capture vs data every second, and on some rides the same riders riding alongside with a Garmin and the other an iPhone will come out with very different times and results.
Too bad they can’t stop the car driven and motorpaced KOMs which are close to, but above the top speeds of the leaders, or the allowance of people posting extreme speeds without comparative heart rates.
Alan, i think you need to train harder, post up your license and really race. What you’ll find si that the KOMs don’t convert into a real big boy place on the podium.
I’m under no illusion that they would, but thanks for your observation. I mainly use Strava as a motivational tool to get a sense of progression against my own previous times on key local segments. It’s just a bit of fun really.
I find this all very sad. I am relatively new to Strava and I think its ace. There will always be idiots, so why label Strava as tool for cycling nuts. Strava makes me do a fantastic set of intervals during a ride, all very safely and pushes me far harder than before. As a result, I have managed to gain 200 KOM’s over the past 7 months and I am always battling with Elite and Cat 1 riders. Just the kudos of that is enough. However, it has pushed my confidence so much that I am about to enter my first criterium race. Without Strava, I don’t think I would do so, so good on ya Strava ! Just need to sort this damn EPO thing !
That sounds awesome Chris. I think most readers here would agree with you, it’s a brilliant motivational tool that can help you to improve faster. Sounds like you’re ready to win a few races! Best of luck.
hi,
is it possible to reset my own “pr” or “kom”
because i did my ride in the slipstream of
an bus or tractor?
yours
jens
Hmm, not sure if you can do this for individual segments. You can easily make the whole ride private, which would remove it from the leaderboards. Or completely delete it (gulp!)